Cylindrical Vase / Hat Stand

kardinalisimo · Jul 11, 2014, 05:54:27

The piece was turned into a lamp and the base is glued to the stand.
First, I'd like an opinion on the age and then if needed I can try to separate it from the stand.
The body shows some age and the paints are thinly applied. I am surprised there is no poem, signature, year or other calligraphy.

Thanks

kardinalisimo · Jul 11, 2014, 05:56:47

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Stan · Jul 11, 2014, 10:16:04

Hi Kardinalisimo, are you sure that is a hat stand, I thought that hat stands are perforated on the sides for air to circulate, I could be wrong though, is the black lines printed, if it is it is a later piece otherwise late Qing, lets see what peter says.

kardinalisimo · Jul 11, 2014, 10:48:49

It is a lamp right now

Stan · Jul 11, 2014, 11:02:11

I was in a chinese porcelain shop in Portland Oregon, mostly new porcelain, they had sets for sale, a brush pot and a brush holder, the brush pot was smaller in size and the brush holder was much larger with the same shape as yours, they both had the same decoration and was being sold as a set, that is why I was asking, I do have brush pots, and what I think is a brush holder, but I do not have a set with same decoration.

peterp · Jul 11, 2014, 13:23:17

In the third picture from the bottom, showing the two fishermen in the boat, there are several places, including the outline of one of the fishermen, and the lines in the water, which give an appearance of printing. Not sure, though, would need to inspect that with a magnifier. Many of the strokes look as if they were hand drawn. But then, later printing techniques could imitate strokes better.

My information on this type of object is controversial, different sources say different things. Generally, from the apparent size (I can compare only to the floor tiles) this is the shape of a hat stand or incense holder (for incense sticks, I suppose). Some say hat stands 'always' have some openings at the sides, some say not necessarily.
Anyway, the painting style would be 20th century, painted at a time that hat stands probably were irrelevant, because those Qing style hats may have been a matter of the past, by then. This is not Qianjiang porcelain, which was earlier.
Leaves as the incense holder.

To Stan:
Large brush holders may sometimes be quite high, about the same as this item, however they are usually much wider; the diameter can be about the same as the height, in some cases.

peterp · Jul 11, 2014, 13:31:39

It is not a vase, that is for sure.
The problem is that as with other items with black outlines, there is a possibility that this is later in the 20th century. Except of the pinkish red blossoms, the rest of the colors do not resemble the early 20th century painting style/colors much. Is the brass rim on top part of the lamp fixture? If not, this is unlikely very old. Such fittings would normally only be added with the more delicate porcelain items. This type of item has a fairly thick wall and does not need protection.

kardinalisimo · Jul 11, 2014, 15:58:48

Seems like you guys were right and indeed it is a later piece. It just fooled me somehow. Maybe some things are hand painted but the rest appears to be print.

Stan · Jul 11, 2014, 20:07:53

Thanks Peter, I appreciate the knowledge of the brush holder, that has been a mystery to me, I thought the same thing about the printing.

kardinalisimo · Jul 11, 2014, 20:51:32

I was worried about the too much black outlining but the Qianjiang are so thinly painted I can't tell print from paint sometimes. The new fencai/ yang cai also gives me hard time. I wish I could have seen the base before I bought this lamp.

kardinalisimo · Jul 11, 2014, 20:56:17

Actually, I don't know if the base would have helped me either.

Stan · Jul 11, 2014, 21:37:41

It looks like the hole was made that way, when it was fired in the kiln, that would be a modern item.

kardinalisimo · Jul 11, 2014, 21:45:38

Yeah, I've noticed that too Stan. The hole is too smooth.

kardinalisimo · Jul 13, 2014, 10:28:56

Maybe my eyes are not well-trained but now I feel like maybe there are quite of few details that are painted. Or like Peter said the printing techniques can imitate that. Or maybe it is combination of print and paint.

peterp · Jul 13, 2014, 16:30:37

Thanks for the additional closeups...that settles it for me.
The black lines are printed, but the filling colors probably handpainted.

The strokes of a brush are indeed imitated: wide where they start and the smaller towards the end; but in many places the interior of a stroke is lighter than the edges, which is typical for impressions. Also, there is some fuzzy area along the strokes, just outside the black edge.