Guanxu M&P?

Pablo82 · Mar 24, 2019, 18:21:10

Hallo Peter and members,

Please your opinion on this bowl. Cm 20 x 8.

Thank you in advance.

Pablo82 · Mar 24, 2019, 18:22:48

More

Pablo82 · Mar 24, 2019, 18:23:44

More

peterp · Mar 24, 2019, 20:21:40

Hi Pablo,

I could not tell for sure if it is M&P. If it is it would probably have to be official ware, although for that the painting quality of the cloud roundels might be insufficient. I'm afraid this may require a hands-on inspection of the glaze, using a magnifier. Personally I think it either has to be imperial ware or a later copy. No clear age or usage signs visible.

Pablo82 · Mar 24, 2019, 21:28:55

Yay! Tank you Peter! I was sure this time I found a super-item! I'll try to post more detailed images using a macro lens.

Pablo82 · Mar 25, 2019, 04:57:49

Looking at it more closely, I noted that the bottom is diffusely slightly scratched and abrased (the lens is not a macro)

Pablo82 · Mar 25, 2019, 05:05:29

...and that some black pupils of the bats' eyes are fallen here and there.

Stan · Mar 25, 2019, 07:19:06

Hi Pablo, I have not seen this pattern of cloud formation in Qing dynasty or republic period, Im not saying it did not exist, but I have viewed for several years Guangxu porcelain and this is a bit strange as Peter mentioned.

Stan · Mar 25, 2019, 07:51:03

I just realized the pattern that this is supposed to be representing of the Guangxu period, it is done so bad I almost did not recognize it, this is clearly late 20th century.

peterp · Mar 25, 2019, 08:33:49

This cloud pattern is common in the Guangxu reign, but it is not export, so you may not see it that often. The clouds are somewhat reminiscent of those used on Bleu de Hue export porcelain, only that those are much larger.
Here is a link of an image search for this pattern. artron and kknet are some of the better sites on the Chinese web, still some items may not be authentic. There are too many being sold even at auction and you know what that might mean. tinyurl.com/y5hmepyt

Here is an image of a vase: img.dpm.org.cn/Uploads/Picture/dc/57180.jpg

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Note:
The "dpm" in the link means this is from the website of the Palace Museum in Peking. If you find a "npm" in the link, this is the National Palace Museum in Taipei. More reliable sites. There is also one called "digitalarchives" which consists mainly of npm pieces.

Pablo82 · Mar 25, 2019, 13:50:04

Thank you Peter! As always your knowledge not of chinese porcelains only, but also of web resorces concerning them, is fundamental to understand. The vase of the Palace Museum that you posted shows bi-tone blue cloud roundels very similar to the bowl's ones, painted in the same slightly waving way. On the other side, the pictorial quality of the bats of the bowl is stratospheric. At this point, also considering where I found the item, I think I can realistically hope to own an imperial chinese porcelain. Thank you Stan for your contribution.

Stan · Mar 26, 2019, 21:55:14

Just when you think you have seen it all, sorry Pablo. I guess that is a legit pattern, but a little crude for Imperial I think, Thanks Peter.

Pablo82 · Mar 27, 2019, 00:56:28

No problem Stan! I would like to have your knowledge!

Stan · Mar 27, 2019, 02:33:21

Thanks Pablo but Peter is the Man his knowledge blows me away, not to mention I would say 99% of what I learned was from Peter.

peterp · Mar 27, 2019, 11:58:13

Thanks for the praise, Stan, but I do not think I deserve it. There is so much more to learn. And you are too modest. I had to virtually give up my interest in antique furniture and wooden objects to concentrate mainly on ceramics, while you continue with multiple categories.
BTW, I noted that you apparently also are strong in the line of Hanga.