18th C. French Faience style Dish

[ssbill]

I found online  today a  dish  someone  called ''a qianlong export dish made in the marseille faience style''. It made me remember about a dish someone had shown me a month a ago . I disregarded it back then  thinking it looked odd like nothing I'd ever seen. I looked back  in my archive and I was able to relocate the photos . I'd like to know what you think of it.
I still think it's probably a 20th century replica because  the bottom rim is not what you usually see on 18th C. export dish but I also know 18th century export ware can come in all strange shape and form.The colors aren't matching perfectly also. The blue, yellow and green look credible, not so sure about the other colors.  The glaze looks OK in my opinion (4th photo)

[ssbill]

A photo of the dish I found today online

[peterp]

Neither the color decoration nor the porcelain body has any resemblance to Chinese export.

[Stan]

I would think European but then the stilt marks on the bottom are not typical of European Porcelain as far as I know. The Japanese used stilts to fire their wares in the kiln in this fashion but it dose not look Japanese at all in my view.

[peterp]

How about Japanese export for Europe? They did all kinds of European styles too.

[Stan]

It is possible, but the decoration on the front edge of the plate looks Chinese, I have never seen this on Japanese porcelain and the foot would be 20th century, if it is straight on the outside of the foot.

[peterp]

Not sure what decoration you mention, but the rim shape is quite impossible in Chinese porcelain. Its shape differs too much from those of certain early kilns.

[Stan]

I was saying the decoration on the inside rim is a Chinese decoration copied, this is Clearly Chinoiserie.

[peterp]

Hi Stan,
The export plate shown in the image at the top sure is of Chinese origin, but it is not a Chinese style decoration per se, it is a Chinese plate with an European style decoration. In other words, probably made to order originally (chine de commande). We know that the Dutch took designs on paper and samples to China for copying them. They could have ordered the same in Japan, if it would be older.
It is just that it seems to me that the plate and color decoration are in perfect shape, not like something one would expect if it was in use.

One question, did you ever see spurs on 20th century Japanese or western porcelain? I mean, do you think it is possible that the spurs shown here were never actually used for firing the plate?

[Stan]

Sorry, I did not read the caption, I thought it was another picture of the original plate posted, yes indeed the second plate posted I agree could very well be Chinese, the first plate Chinoiserie.