Blue and White Bowl-Which Period-Why the Marks are different

[Lee Seng Kong]

Hello everyone.

Attached are photos of B & W bowls in my collection.

The bowl can be compared to the similar items salvaged from the DESARU Shipwreck (Mid 19th Century).

I have 2 of them, same in size and shape,  both have the similar decorations on the cavetto and the interior....except the marks on the base is different.

Q.:- are the marks "kiln marks" ? and if they are, why are they different.

Kindly advice and Thank-You

More photos will follow

[Lee Seng Kong]

more photos

[Lee Seng Kong]

Photos of different marks

[Stan]

Hi Lee Seng Kong, I just posted two bowls one with the same mark, Jiaqing period, although mine are celadon that have been redecorated at a later time, I do have and posted several bowls that are b/w with the same mark, this bowl seems to be free from age signs, that is my only concern, but the mark itself is not in my book of marks so I will be interested in what Peter say's about the mark.

[peterp]

The top one is a Jiaqing mark, but I do not know the lower one. I will have to look it up.
I would not give marks too much importance because many are apocryphal anyway, even on genuine antiques.

[Lee Seng Kong]

Thank-you Peter and Stan,

Stan...I did view your post on the bowls.....and my only question is....should it be described as celadon bowls ?.

From my understanding, celadon comes in quite a few colors ...not necessarily be in shades of green

On age marks...I believe age marks is the one criteria that is most easily fake, amongst other ways of faking.

As for me,  I scrub my antiques until they are clean to be put into display cabinets.....so I get rid of appearance of dirty surfaces to indicate age.....

As for scratches due to wear and tare.....this depends on whether the item has been used or not......and an item may be in perfect condition if it is salvage from the seas....no scratches , blemishes etc.

Basically, I am a hobbyist......I have collected antiques/collectibles of various medium over the years.........porcelain, earthen ware, glass, wood, silver, gold, cloisonne, bronze, brass....so, it is only cloisonne,  bronze and brass wares that I do not scrub/ polish....just water down, brush of cob-webs and loose dirt, and dry

[peterp]

I could not positively identify the mark. But also Qing dynasty, judging by the base and decoration.

[Stan]

I believe the word Celadon arrived in the seventeenth century in France, a color meaning greenish gray and then in the 19th century collectors that collected ceramics known to the Chinese as qing ci meaning green or bluish green porcelain wares started calling them celadon, that is what I have been told, Im sure Peter can set the record straight on that.
You are right all stages of the making of Chinese Porcelain can be faked, but when it is not present on an antique it makes me think later, I agree with Peter though Qing dynasty at least.

[peterp]

As regards the term 'celadon', I have put a short opinion in the 'watercooler board' below.

[Lee Seng Kong]

Hi Peter,

What's a "water cooler board"...can't see any attachment.

Thank-you

[peterp]

A board of this forum is called "Water cooler". Just scroll down on the first (entry) page.

[Lee Seng Kong]

On water-cooler........Thank you Peter ...very informative...... and point taken.

Too bad my education in Mandarin was only for 6 years of primary school... otherwise, I could have learn.....but then again, I do have some friends who are Mandarin educated....yet they cannot read some of the old type of Mandarin writings

Thank-you Stan and you are right .....point taken.