Celadon jarlet "unusual decoration"

[cimage]

Hello,

I got this celadon jarlet. I've been searching a lot and found similarities with yuan dynasty jarlets, but the glaze seems more "shufu luanbai"...

I just wanted your help, any help, because of the decoration which seems very unusual (check photos)... I even dont know how to describe or name this kind of decoration...

[peterp]

First three buts...  :-)
If the true color of the item is anywhere near that in the pictures, then this would be a white or qingbai glaze, I think. Celadon should have a more pronounced greenish or bluish hue. I can see that only on the neck, near the mouth, therefore it is more likely a qingbai glaze.
Second, a real Shufu glaze does not look like this. It has no gloss whatsoever. and it has a slightly different color.
And third, the base of Yuan items that are not flat have a foot rim and specific shape of the area within. Sometimes both are present, sometimes only one. One is not present here, and the foot rim shape is not clearly visible (talking about the angle of the lowest and interior surfaces). Are the horizontal respectively vertical, or angular/slanted?
I recommend looking at the item here: www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/yuan-dynasty.html , especially the foot rim shape which is typical for Yuan.

But, this item is old, no problem. My guess is that it might be Southern Song if it is Chinese. However, the almost invisible 'decoration' on the shoulder could also point to Vietnamese porcelain.
My personal view.

[cimage]

Dear Peter thanks a lot for your great answer.

Actually I've been searching in all the direction you point out. I began with the Vietnamese... the qingbai... even the Sawankhalok thai pottery... but the problem, if there is one, remains the type of decoration, not the look of decoration, or the style which points towards Vietnamese or/and thai pottery, but the type, the technique, how it was done... Been searching for a while now and I havent seen anything like that...

The most concordant item I've found so far it's an example of shufu luanbai on koh-antique.com (check photos below). But there's no decoration on it...

If anyone has seen this kind of decoration (I don't know how to name it...) please let me know...

[peterp]

The images were removed. You should only post your own images here, otherwise we may get into trouble for copyright infringement. This forum is spidered several times a day by Google, and people might easily find them.

[cimage]

Ok sorry. Didn't know! But it was for no commercial reasons, and the source was mentioned. How about a link? Is that ok...?

[peterp]

Please read: Links to external sites - above -depends on the link.

Anyway, the pictures are quite bad quality, everything having a green hue. The only items that show a glaze that corresponds clearly to Shufu glaze are in the third picture showing Hongwu period items. Never heard of Ming Shufu items, however, in the Hongwu reign many decorations resembled the Yuan decorations more than the later Ming ones.

Some of the pictures clearly show the underside of Yuan dynasty items. However as mentioned, the color is difficult to identify. Any reflecting glazes are unlikely Shufu glazes. I have had opportunity to handle three Shufu items. I agree with what Chinese sources say: the Shufu glaze is like candle wax, it is totally non-reflecting, without any gloss. Some of these items reflect the light just too much. Many people erroneously think they got a Shufu item, but often it is an item type with a more reflecting glaze, but a similarly impressed decoration. The non-reflecting feature is one of the main features used for positive identification of Shufu wares. There are no white shufu wares, by the way, unlike those other ones. Most have a color resembling the one of the Hongwu item. But without viewing its decoration closely, it is difficult to be sure if the decoration is the same, or only the glaze type.

[cimage]

Thanks for the information - the non reflection of shufu wares - Peter. Very interesting.

I'll keep searching, but I'm afraid this is another one of those items - I have a few - for which you need patience taking advise from the age of the item itself...

[peterp]

> I have a few - for which you need patience
Everyone has some, including myself.    :-)

[peterp]

I'm afraid there is another possibility... if you check on shipwreck porcelain from SE Asia there are similar items. Not sure if it could be from there, the neck is a bit longer here.