Mystery Dish

Andy Dorset · Dec 09, 2016, 07:07:11

Dear Peter / All,
Thought I might be able to pick your brains over a few items I found in the Summer that I have not 100% pinned down. I need to kick things off with this dish first as it has proved a headache to identify. After countless bonkers ideas I have come up with the notion it could possibly be a kind of brush washer? One of the quirky things about the dish is it has animal ( tiger? dog?) handles and inbetween the ears is a groove I figured could be to hold something thin (brush?) in place. I have trawled through hundreds of images/ archives and I have not seen another like it so I have no comparison to work with.
The dish itself it 9in long, 5 1/2 in wide and 2 in deep. It is incredibly heavy for its size, very thickly and well potted. It has proved a nightmare to photograph as there are so many different details/ designs and forms. As mentioned it has two animal handles and two pouring lips. There are cross hatch, zig zig, floral scroll designs aswell as a mountain scene in the centre. The pouring lips are fluted and decorated top and bottom. All I know for definate is that it is relatively early. I know there are damage issues to the handles but for a few quid I couldnt pass it up. I really felt is was a quality and unusual dish.
Please help, I do hate a mystery.
Thanks in advance,
Andy

Stan · Dec 09, 2016, 09:07:46

Hi Andy, I doubt that this is Chinese, the decoration is a poor attempt in my opinion, I think it is a form of Chinoiserie, possibly English.

MythicalFoxes · Dec 09, 2016, 10:13:40

hello,

i dont know where you are from, but for me it was easy to identify. i am Dutch myself and was able to come up with the idea of it being a gravy boat. it really is something that was made for the Dutch and the British people i feel like. typical export porcelain from china. and i am not entirely sure, but it could be very well 18th century Qianlong period. and the reason why i think that this might be from the 18th century is because of that it seems all to be handpainted. and the porcelain seems fairly old aswell. and the pattern on the top edge that also goes under the handles. seems to be Qianlong period style i think.

i had a quick search on google and this is what i could find for the moment tinyurl.com/jnz5gbb
. sadly these are bad quality pictures. and the website they are from doesnt load well i think.

Andy Dorset · Dec 09, 2016, 14:53:02

Hi,
perfect!!!!! How did I not see these images, perhaps it was because I wasnt looking for gravy boat maybe...I felt 18th century based on the colour and glaze but until not had any comparison. Sorry Stan but I own too many peices of Chinese porcelain to know this is Chinese for definate, absolutely no doubt and definately not European. Thank you for solving this little puzzle at last! Will post my next query now.
Many thanks,
Andy

Andy Dorset · Dec 09, 2016, 18:24:28

Dear MythicalFoxes,
again thank you that was so well spotted. I like to think I would have arrived at sauce boat eventually but I more than likely would be still thinking brush washer for years to come ha ha! The link you sent is exactly the same as mine albeit a differing design. I have since done another search with the new found knowledge still proving pretty difficult which makes me feel a little less inadequate. I think they must be fairly scarce so big brownie points coming your way!!
Cheers, Andy

MythicalFoxes · Dec 09, 2016, 20:43:31

haha thankyou very much. i understand that it could be hard to guess what it whas. there are probably some chinese porcelain pieces that i don't know aswell. i am not an expert, but i have done quite a lot with asian antiques. so thats why i am not 100% sure about the age of the object. maybe someone else cares to share their information regarding the object. what i said is what i feel like it is. thanks again you are very kind

Stan · Dec 09, 2016, 23:23:03

The web page that MythicalFoxes gave really are some poor photo's, there is no way to tell if the ones shown are from the Qianlong period, to convince me I would need a close up of the blue decoration. In the Qianlong period they used little pricking marks to outline the decoation before they painted, clear close up photo to confirm, it is my understanding that this out lining the decoration with unmistakable little pricking marks carried into the Jiaqing period as well.

Andy Dorset · Dec 10, 2016, 01:08:30

Hi Stan,
yes indeed they were poor quality pictures but sometimes all you need is a small piece of missing puzzle and then it all makes sense and MythicalFoxes helped me out with this which I appreciate. This dish is 18th century and it is a gravy boat. Thank you again MythicalFox for your input.

Stan · Dec 10, 2016, 03:31:29

Hi Andy, you can also look at several example at the high auction houses under Sauceboat.

MythicalFoxes · Dec 10, 2016, 07:01:09

yes it crossed my mind aswell, that it might be from a later period. and jiaqing period could very well be true. so i would describe it as a late 18th century to early 19th century piece. Stan really has a point. as i said earlier, dont be entirely sure about it being from the Qianlong period. but a very nice find after all

billbilly · Dec 10, 2016, 09:57:35

I have to see close up pictures of the foot rim and underglaze blue.

Stan · Dec 10, 2016, 10:13:55

Hi MythicalFoxes, I am still not sure about the decoration, the scrolling or waves on the outside around the area that the sauce would pour from, I have not seen a decoration like that before and the diaper that is by itself, usually there would be people under the diaper, I would like to hear Peters comments on this, the sauceboat look old to me and all the ones in this shape that I looked are 18th century, I agree with Billbilly, a closer look is needed. And while we are on the subject, what is a diaper used for anyway, a sun screen? a fan, inquiring minds want to know.

peterp · Dec 10, 2016, 19:19:59

Never saw a shape with handles attached to the narrow side, but this was made to order from the west, for sure. The decoration looks like 18th century, but also not typical like the majority of export porcelain. The relatively low, but wide and rounded foot rim could also point to a Dehua, but the color of the underglaze blue is important, and whether there are worm traces in it. So, is this blue the actual blue color or is it different? Any closeup shot of a blue area for evaluation?