Chinese Imari plates

[carlyoung]

Hi all

I want to show this pair of Chinese export porcelain plates I purchased the other day, They look to be export plates with Imari decoration , Chinese and I was thinking of a Yongzheng or Qianlong dating ?

I know Chinese Imari was really only made for a short time in mass leading from late Kangxi through to Qianlong but I was wondering if anyone could tell me which period these plates are from ?

And also could they be clobbered and not Imari?

Thanks

Carl

[carlyoung]

more pictures

[Stan]

Hi have a problem with part of the decoration, on the front of the plate their are two blue lines, notice that the flower decoration flows into the blue lines, I have never seen that on a period piece, I think this would be from the Jiaqing period and would be called Chinese Imari if authentic, the flowers look like they were possibly transferred on. BTW I am seeing a lot of plates these days with  the same foot rim as on your plate, most are in the rice pattern and they look old to me but I get nervous when I see so many.

[carlyoung]

Hi Stan

Thanks for the comments , I see what you mean , I believe these are genuine mind and the only explanations I can come too are that they - 1. Might have been clobbered at a latter date? or 2. During the late 17th century when China lifted it's ban on export to the west , the western taste was for Japanese Imari so they simply over painted blue and white plates with gilt and red , fired them again and sold them to the west as Imari , This would have been a clever way of reusing back stock of unused plates and saving time?

or maybe my imagination is far too powerful. lol

[peterp]

Maybe this is not the pattern Stan is thinking of. The Jiaqing pattern could have developed from this one, though. I also noted that the gilt and red is over-painting the same underglaze blue flowers/leaves on the rim. It could be Chinese Imari, but the over-painting could also have been made later, in Canton or the west.
All I want to point to is that the foot rim is right for the Kangxi through Qianlong period. In case of Canton wares this may be including early Jiaqing items, because of remaining stock of blanks from the earlier reign.
A backside decoration, however,  made of underglaze blue is specific to the Kangxi reign, though.
Thus, the chance that it is Kangxi is higher, although the on-glaze color decoration might have been added later. It only needs another firing at a lower temperature.

[carlyoung]

Thanks Peter

[carlyoung]

Stan

From my knowledge , Chinese Imari was only really produced between the late Kangxi through to the early Qianlong periods then It waned in popularity resulting in the near stopping of production , I do not mean it is impossible to find a Jaiqing Chinese Imari plate but it would be scarce.

That is what dated it approximately for me along with the usual signs of age and the footrim.

The reason I thought it could have been a plate that the Chinese just over painted to copy Japanese Imari tastes is the fact that if you imagine the plate with no red or gold it would look fine as a blue and white , The busy border and the floral motif , If you took a plate that was intended to be Imari and took away the red and gold , you would probably see a very unpleasing plate with sparse blue and large gaps , a real awkward looking plate.

I hope that made sense. Ha

[Stan]

I am pretty sure that Chinese Imari was carried way into the Jailing period, it was still popular world wide at the time, I am sure, but as Peter mentioned the foot rim would be as you said, Kangxi through Qianlong period, or as peter said, blanks carried over to the Jaiqing period, but the decoration looks like repeated design around the double blue lines, only you can tell Carlyoung, are the flowers duplicates, it looks to me like there was two different flower designs that was transferred and hand painted afterwards to give the appearance of hand painting, if it is then it was added at a much later date, also keep in mind that even though the plate was made in the earlier periods once it has been modified, it will be looked at as the last date modified to collectors.

[carlyoung]

Hi there Stan

All the red flowers you refer to around the double blue circles are all different , not one alike and definitely hand painted , The only question I have is when the over painting was done , I will have to study the painting styles of each reign .

Which should not really be fun but probably will be.