Large Octagon shaped plater

[Stan]

Hi Peter and all, here is a large Japanese plater up for discussion, I believe that this is mid Maiji period made in Arita, It has a six character Chenghua mark on the bottom and then on the inside it has characters bordering  the inside and looks like it is repeating itself, it looks like Chinese writing to me, and the decoration looks Chinese, could this be Japanese export to China and can you read the characters on the inside of the plater, I will post 9 photos, thanks for viewing.

[Stan]

Here are more photo's to view.

[Stan]

Here are the last set of photo's, thanks for viewing.

[peterp]

Hi Stan,
As far as I know Japan did never export to China, only to Europe. China was the largest producer and it exported to Japan too, rather than the other way round. Not to mention that Japanese wares would hardly have been widely accepted in China, in the past, for various reasons.
Today, the Japanese language uses nearly 2000 Kanji (=Chinese characters) in everyday writing. They are well capable of writing these characters, but normal people will not be able to read them. They are mostly used for calligraphy/decoration.
The characters here are repetitive, that means a number of different characters are repeated all along the circumference. I cannot read them, it is difficult to distinguish individual characters. The people are painted in Chinese style, but Chinese motifs are frequently found on Japanese porcelain.

Please note some oddities: the tower or pagoda, or whatever this should be... the base looks like a Japanese castle wall, but on top there are two stories. That there are people inside may not correspond with Japanese customs IF it should be a pagoda. In Japan the latter are used to store Buddhist relics, etc. But I do not remember seeing any multi-story buildings of this type in Japan anyway. The roof top looks strange too, and did you note the left looking branches of the trees (second image from top)? They look like heads of some snake or dragon.  In the same picture, right top, near the rim, there is a plant that looks subtropical to me, not something likely encountered in a temperate climate like that of Japan (except perhaps in the Ryukyus).
Pretty strange plate, I think.

[Stan]

Thanks Peter, I thought the decoration looked a little strange, but other than that everything else looks good, I wonder if this could be one of the good fakes being reproduced, note the cobalt blue has the same depth as a period piece, if it wasn't for the strange decoration I would be 100% sure it is period but I am not quite convinced, even the rust spots in the blue and in the white ground look right to me, Strange like you say.

[Mat]

Hi Stan, I do not think your platter is a reproduction, it looks fine to me. I would date it a bit earlier, to the late Edo period...

[Stan]

Hi Mat, I appreciate your opinion, that is what I thought when I purchased it, but I was a little skeptical because of some of the decoration as Peter mentioned, this is why I was thinking mid Meiji, I have other Chargers that are similar but the decoration is more Japanese on the other ones I have, could this be just a poor copy of Chinese style from the Late Edo period, the color and the thickness of the porcelain and rust spots and dimples look right for that period but I would like to see something from that period that reflects the decoration on this charger, thank you for your comments.

[peterp]

If it would be possible to read the writing, that might give some hint at what the subject of the plate might be. Unfortunately, it is unclear which are individual characters and which are combined with the previous or following partial character. I have seen this only in modern Japan. Never in Chinese writing, as if it was intentionally written in a fancy manner.

Anyway, some more observations. What do you make of the white disc, is it the moon with eyes painted? That would be odd, if it was traditional porcelain. But in this case, would the structures near the tower and those leading to the moon be clouds? Is that scene showing something in heaven? I would have no problems with that, if it weren't for the eyes ... and why is there something like a ceiling on top of all this and 'above' this. I would expect it to be below, if it would show a scene of heaven.

There could be an explanation for the tropical plant, though. A painter from the Ryukyu islands, which start just south of Kyushu might have done it. Those islands have a warmer climate. But, enough of guessing, above all it might just be a fantasy of the painter. In Japan expression in porcelain painting was less restricted and conservative than at Chinese kilns, it appears.

[Stan]

I thought the two holes were windows in a structure built into the hillside, but I like your assessment of a  heavenly scene better.