Qaulity Censer - Qianlong Mark

[Stillwaters]

Hi all! I'm new here, I joined because I want to learn more about Oriental ceramincs. I know a bit already though

Anyway, I took a chance and bought this today, its a censer that stands 7 inches tall. The docor was what made me buy it, I could tell that it was better than your usual pieces. Plus, the estate that it came from, they lived most of their lives outside of the US and were very knowledgeable about Asian art, lots of great, rare stuff in there. They collected really good stuff all their lives

Its a Qianlong mark in rust red, hand-painted. The decor is quite fine too. It was on a base its whole life, so the bottom is pretty clean.

So, does anyone have any thoughts on this piece? Age perhaps? Quality?

- Still

[peterp]

No need to mention the mark. Shape, colors and painting are clearly a more recent fantasy creation.
There are no censers with this shape. The reason is very simple, this shape would be unsuitable. The incense would be extinghished du to lack of air. Censers are not that deep, allowing sufficient air to prevent the incense from going out. Censers with lids are used with incense powder.

The colors and grid are things that did not exist on traditional Chinese porcelain, I'm afraid.

[Stillwaters]

Thanks for being so condescending, what a nice place this is.

[Stillwaters]

Google "chinese censer," there are many as deep as this one and even deeper. Some wares were decorative and not intended for use, even the old ones. I have a $10,000 Yabu Meizan bowl from the 1890's, and no one was ever meant to eat rice out of THAT, I can tell you.

[shelley Kong]

I asked for advice concerning an incense burner with a Qianlong mark around end of November 2013. Peter gave an unbiased opinion. Of course I would love to hear that it is a piece of imperial ware but as beginners, we need to accept the cruel truth that we often end up buying fakes or antique looking items. We have to be open and modest about different opinions.  Please look at the old forum concerning what Peter said about mine.

[Stillwaters]

Clearly mine isn't imperial ware, I'm not stupid enough to think THAT. I never said it was, or even THOUGHT it was very old.

Please delete this thread

[Stan]

Hi Stillwater, it is important to collect the things that you like, your Censer is a very attractive modern piece. thanks for sharing.

[Stillwaters]

Well thank you Stan, that was nice of you to say. I did think the decoration was a few notches about the export junk I usually come across.

The husband died a while ago, and all of his stuff has been locked away in storage for decades, so I know it wasn't made yesterday.

[peterp]

Hi, no offense meant, but I wonder why so many people don't bother reading the information on the site. In the Marks section you would have found information that tells why the mark is NOT usable for identification. The minimum reading is here: http://www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/antique-china-marks.html

'Estates' almost always also have newer items or fakes. That someone lived in Asia does not necessarily mean there items are authentic. I live among Chinese, but even here most people have no idea what is genuinely antique, or what is fake.
I explained that your item is more recent and not a real censer. Do you know how many types of censer there are?
There are basically ONLY two types, those which are filled with sand or ash, and which are used for putting incense sticks into. (The sand holds the stick.)
The other type is used for putting incense powder into it. It usually has a lid with holes. Sometimes the body may have tiny holes in hidden places, to let the air pass. But they are generally shallow. Those without a lid are for sticks and may be deeper, because the incense stick is higher up, near the mouth where the air circulates. Incense will not burn if there is insufficient air.
Your censer has a lid, and therefore would be for powder;  it is in the shape of a jar, which is impractical as it lacks aeration.

I would be interested if you could point me to any censer that is high like yours on Google. Always willing to learn new things.,

We all buy fakes, and this is an important part of learning. That is me, that is you, that is museum curators, experts, etc. All bought theiir share of fakes and new items. That is how they got to know what they do. Knowing about Chinese antiques is not limited to this, though. It requires the study of China's culture, history and many other related things, as well as ancient production methods, etc. The more you learn the better you get to understand how little you really know.

[Stillwaters]

I'm sorry Peter, I can't find the part where I said that I thought this was a genuine, antique imperial Qianlong censer, can you point it out for me?

I'm not a TOTAL newbie here, I know the deal with Chinese marks, I simply said that it HAD a Qianlong mark, and then asked for opinions on age (further implying that I knew it was not a period piece).

Estates do mostly have newer items, but guess what, go hit some in a wealthy neighborhood. A few weeks ago I bought a $10,000 Yabu Meizan bowl for $10 at one in Scottsdale.

What do you mean by "fakes?" Because there are millions of pieces out there with Qianlong/Daoguang/etc marks on them that aren't of the period, but are still very valuable and sell well. Are they "fakes?"

[peterp]

You still sound too much centered on marks. Learn about the color and density of the porcelain bodies, the glazes used in different periods, and the difference between mineral pigments used in the past and the chemical pigments used today. You will see that some colors were just outright impossible on antique porcelain because mineral pigments could not produce many of the colors that today are possible to be fired.

[Stillwaters]

Don't know where you're getting that, almost all of that last post was me trying to show you how marks don't matter.

And again, I never said that I thought it was a genuine Qianlong, why do you keep talking about antique pieces? I just asked about the age, somewhere in the 20th century. 50's-60's?? 60's-70's?? That's all I'm asking here

I do have a weird piece that I was thinking of putting on, as long as you don't laugh me out of the forum please..

Also wanted to say, the photo system is very difficult to use, I have to make copies of all of them and keep resizing and checking the preferences and using a calculator so that they don't surpass 600kb. Its very time-consuming.

I will post that other piece though.

[shelley Kong]

May be you are mixing up what I said concerning Peter's opinion on MY incense burner. He said mine was of imperial shape, but the way the children were painted makes it more likely to be from the 20th century. Also the glaze is too white to make it antique. May I remind you that this forum is about ANTIQUE Chinese porcelain, so we all try to discuss that.

[Stillwaters]

I did find a similar piece, a pair actually

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FINE-PAIR-20C-CHINESE-REPUBLIC-PERIOD-FAMILLE-ROSE-COVERED-VASES-QIANLONG-MARK/291084799344?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.RVI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D5774943498910338689%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D20131017132637%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D291084799344

[shelley Kong]

I can't have access to the vases