Famille Verte Rouleau vase

[Stan]

Hi Peter, here is another find, it has a small hairline crack in the glaze, and the blue rings on the bottom are blue with not purple in the blue, for some reason my camera puts a tint of purple in the blue, could you tell me if there is a date on this vase and how old you think it is, the hight is 25.4 cm tall and there is rust spots and some glaze retractions, I will post 8 photo's to view, thanks.

[Stan]

Here are the last set of photo's to view, thanks again.

[peterp]

No there is no date, Stan.
You know what the purplish tint of the double ring mark means...

[Stan]

Hi Peter, you miss understand, it is not purple at all, its this cheap camera that I have, the color is light blue, no purple at all.

[Stan]

I found one on christies past lots that is identical and has the same writing on the vase, signed Ran Mo, same colors and size, they date it 1662 - 1722 Kangxi.

[Stan]

Here is are some photo's under direct sun light.

[peterp]

How is it inside? Any brown spots or glaze imperfections?
Judging by the colors used it could belate Qing to republic period.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, did you see the one that sold at Christies, under past lots, it is identical same colors and the exact same script, they are say it is Kangxi period.

[peterp]

I doubt this could be Kangxi. As far as I know there were only two periods when writing of this type was used on polychrome items. The first one was in the Yongzheng reign, but such items seem to be quite rare. The second is the late Qing dynasty. The colors would correspond to those of the Guangxu reign.
You are sure they did not say Kangxi "style" or Kangxi "revival" or something similar?
You could send the link.

[Stan]

I hope this gives you the link. tinyurl.com/pyvvv9p

[peterp]

The colors on the pictures of that vase are definitely looking more like Kangxi. As far as I can see it seems that the text is an exact copy, but is the mark? It would also be interesting to inspect the bottom, especially the consistency of the foot rim.
Anyway, I will keep an eye open for other instances of text on Kangxi fencai wares. Either it is an exception, or my information needs adjusting.

Can you see the differences in color? Kangxi revival items often have slightly different color tones. The reason apparently is that fencai (enamel on porcelain body) was only developed in the late Kangxi reign, when fewer colors were available. The green colors used in that period (and perhaps the red) were often different from that used in the late Qing dynasty.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, the color on this vase sees to be a little brighter than the one on Christies, but the colors are the same, also around the shoulder the two bands, one on top of the roundels and the other under the roundels are colored with purple, the one on Christies is not, the porcelain itself is thicker than what I am used to seeing on a vase this size, late Qing to early republic the porcelain would be thiner and when shinning a light through it is visible on the entire vase, but this one you can only see light through the center where it is thinner than the rest, it would be nice to see the entire bottom on the one at Christies to see if it has the double circles and same foot rim, this vase was made in two sections and the seam is very uniform although it looks like there is caked in dirt from age in the seam, there is very little pitting in the inside of the vase, was the quality back then very high of is that a sign of a more recent copy? other than that the shape the bottom of the outside of the foot is identical.

[peterp]

Hi Stan,
Not sure what you mean with recent. I do not think this vase is from the recent view decades (the way I use the expression "recent"). It would rather be of the Guangxu to early republic period, probably. The quality was at least as good then, but...it had brighter green color variations available. Especially the yellow component is stronger in some green colors, making it appear olive. If you compare late Qing early republic green to Kangxi green colors, you will see a difference in the green tone of the colors, but you need the right light to judge that. The tint of green is really important when judging Kangxi items. Another one is the type or hue of red, which is usually is containing less of a yellow component. In the late Qing dynasty it sometimes looks more like a dark orange color than red. I think this type of red did also not exist then.
This is not a matter of green / green but rather a matter of specific types of green. It should be the same, otherwise it is possible that it is Kangxi revival, when colors were more abundant.
Just the decoration and shape being the same is insufficient as proof that it is Kangxi. The Guangxu period is called "Kangxi revival"  because many Kangxi objects and decorations were copied; not necessarily to the last detail, though.
Kangxi colors were still limited in comparison to what was possible from the Yongzheng reign onward; it was a turning point after the limited colors of the Ming dynasty (wucai (means "five colors") and doucai, etc.). The fencai enamel was just invented and color types or hues were not yet as abundant as in the Yongzheng reign.
Please compare with the colors on other authentic Kangxi decorations too. It is not necessary that the item or decoration is similar.
I assume you also noted that the whole decoration has the same content, but that the style and proportions are deviating somewhat. While there would have been differences from piece to piece due to hand painting, would the difference be that great even between different batches? In a kiln environment the same people would paint only a part of the picture (many working on the same) or color, but it would always have been the same people. How do you explain that?
The above is my personal view.