Ming dynasty Water Dropper?

calder · Mar 25, 2014, 07:07:16

Hi could anyone confirm this is a water dropper.
The marks are perhaps Ming dynasty?
4 inches high
Thank you in advance.
Thoughts?

Stan · Mar 25, 2014, 07:18:11

Depending on how big this is, water droppers are relatively small, they usually have two small holes one for the water and the other for air, from your pictures I can't tell if the top part of the pot is it open completely or is there a small hole and is the top opening as big as the spout if so it is probably a decorative water pot.

Stan · Mar 25, 2014, 07:22:42

the small holes is what makes the water drop and not pour, that is how they got the name water dropper, if yours has large openings the water would pour and be a water pot.

calder · Mar 25, 2014, 07:45:57

Thanks Stan- You are correct it must be a pot as it only has one hole.
The spout only.
I have never seen the like .
Also- it only has three Character Marks around the spout.
And a square seal on the base.

Stan · Mar 25, 2014, 08:31:09

I almost bought a collection of around 20 water droppers and there was a couple similar water pots like yours, I do not know what the proper name is for yours, it will be interesting to see what Peter says, I don't even know really what they are used for, they seem to be to small for watering plants, I have seen them sell for a lot of money,

Stan · Mar 25, 2014, 08:39:15

Hi Calder, I just read up on water droppers and what they were used for was to drop water on a ink stone and then they would grind an ink stick on the ink stone, by grinding the ink stick on the ink stone one can make ink and they used it for writing calligraphy.

peterp · Mar 25, 2014, 08:54:45

Hi, the Ming dynasty has no such marks, as far as I know. Ming marks were mostly plain writing (Kaishu style). I have doubts about this being Ming or Qing dynasty.
The figure is likely contemporary, I think. The face does not correspond to Chinese faces painted or sculpted in the past. The hairstyle would be that of a small child. But the garment is most problematic. A long coat style of garment would mean Ming dynasty or much earlier. But in those times there was no buttoning in the middle. It was either on the left or right side (or going down like that of the traditional Japanese clothing). On the other hand, in the Qing dynasty buttons could be in the middle, but there were no such garments usually (with some exceptions).
Too many doubts for my taste.

calder · Mar 25, 2014, 09:02:02

Hi Stan/Peter thank you for taking the time out to respond to my questions.
Do you think this pot could of been used as a brush washer?
As it seems the size and shape would be impractical for watering plants also the spout is large enough for a brush.
Also if possible what are the three Character marks represent on the spout?

calder · Mar 25, 2014, 09:10:00

Hi Peter there are no buttons on this garment that I can see perhaps a belt of some sort in the middle.

peterp · Mar 25, 2014, 09:13:22

Hi , there are also ewer style water droppers, etc. Basically, water droppers seem to come in a lot more shapes than other Chinese items. Sometimes, they have the shape of animals, or anything. Usually they are small, have a small outlet, and a tiny hole at the top (about 2-3mm). When using the dropper a finger is put on the hole, thus controlling the amount of water that is dropped unto the ink slab.

Stan, careful with the droppers. As with the snuff bottles they were and are still being made.

calder · Mar 25, 2014, 09:14:26

This picture might help your decision Peter.
There are two different colours of porcelain pushed together or painted not sure.

peterp · Mar 25, 2014, 09:18:53

I'm aware of that. But, unless the garment has a V-shaped opening the right and left part MUST be tied together, and there is a dividing line in the center. In those garments without buttons one side would go down to the belt, and the other half going across, closing it, thus creating a V shaped collar.

peterp · Mar 25, 2014, 09:29:23

Thanks for the picture. I originally wrote this in my answer, then deleted it:

It is unlikely although not impossible that two very different clays were used for the same item. The kilns were located in rural areas near where the clay was mined. If you have Kaolin, you may not necessarily have access to this type of dark clay. At least I have never seen one like this before.
I am quite sure about the mark not being Ming.
Dating or autenticating Chinese porcelain is not an exact science, and one should always be prepared to learn something new (there is really much to learn!!!), we learn from experience.
But I have doubts about this.
This is just my view. If you are sceptical, the right thing to do is to keep an eye open and see if you encounter another one, that is authentic, in the future. :-)

calder · Mar 25, 2014, 09:36:38

Thank you Peter For responding.
I am a novice with a capital N.

Stan · Mar 25, 2014, 10:21:25

Thanks Peter, that is why I did not purchase the collection, I just do not know that much about water droppers, but from what I have learned they looked fairly new, but made to look old.