Strange 27" Tall Yellow Vase RESEMBLING Guangxu Pieces

[Stillwaters]

It measures 27" tall, up to my hip, and could fit a basketball at its widest point. It was turned into a lamp, and I can only get the base off a TINY bit, just enough to that there are in fact Chinese characters on it, leading me to believe that it was not originally a vase.

Now before you laugh me out of the forum, I know this isn't a genuine Guangxu palace vase, it may even be an English copy by Burmantofts or something, but what look like Chinese characters make me think not. Plus the beautiful wooden stand

I did, however, examine it under LED, UV, and magnification, and it does appear to have some decent age to it. Fine, dark crazing, etc. No signs of "antiquification" either.

It came from the estate of the husband of the mayor of Scottsdale in the 70's, which is about the wealthiest city in Arizona. The man was a prominent art dealer in the area for 40 years, and had some very vauable pieces in his home. Genuine Ming cloisonne, paintings, sculptures, bronzes, Venetian art glass, sterling... They were very well-off and prominent members of the community.

Anyway, just hoping for some input on what this could possibly be.

[peterp]

This vase has the shape of a Meiping vase.
Can you upload more pictures? Would be especially interested in seeing closeups of the front part of the dragon, and the tip of the tail.
Yes, the wooden base could have some value itself if it is heavy and shows age. The more valuable wood types are heavy enough to sink in water.

[Stan]

from what I can see, the dragon looks like the old style of decoration, the way the five claws are done are from earlier periods, I think you should take it apart and take detailed pictures of the bottom,  the bottom edge and close up pictures of the mark, even with a hole in the vase it could be worth a lot more as a vase than a lamp, I think it would be worth finding out, you can always change it back to a lamp.

[peterp]

I intended to suggest just that, Stan, but then deleted it. Depends on the type of fitting.

Some fittings can be screwed off, but some may be fixed with epoxy or something similar.
Just easy with that...we do not want you to destroy your porcelain.
With some lamps like that a hole was drilled into the bottom. A brass rod with a receptacle was passed through hole and top opening for fixing the shade and receptacle. It could be possible to loosen the screwing connection at the top of below the base, if there is any. But please, no undue application of force. It might break the porcelain as the area around the hole may be weakened by the drilling. Try applying a bit of oil if there is a screwed connection and wait, before trying it again.
If glue was used, better leave it for the time being. Especially if epoxy was used, the glue connection might be stronger than the porcelain. Just go easy on this...

[Stan]

Yes peter, that would be the worst scenario, but as many as I have done, I have never encountered one that was glued, Stillwaters said she almost had it apart and could see the mark on the bottom, so I did not think it was glued, but I will say if she is not capable of taking it all the way apart she should have a qualified person do so, sorry I do not want to get anyone in trouble, but it is the only way to get an expert opinion from you and if she dose get it apart she can also take a close up picture of the top lip and inside the vase if possible for an evaluation.

[Stillwaters]

Well, problem is, something seems to be stuck or rusted 27" down INSIDE the thing. I've taken apart lamps before, I know how to do it, but something's not right here. I'm holding both ends and it just WILL NOT turn. I twisted so hard that I actually gave the metal tube a fissure down the length of it. I stopped fiddling with it for fear of damaging it.

My options are either to chop it off at the bottom with bolt-cutters, or try fiddling with it again, but I don't think its coming off with pliers... What do you guys think? I think it would be more valuable/desirable as a vase anyway, even with the hole. Should I just go for it and chop the thing off?

The stand is actually quite beautiful, very attractive grain and color. I'm not an expert in Chinese woods, but I can tell its a good one.

Sorry about the late response everyone, for some resason it hasn't notified my email address of follow-up posts. I'll post another thread with more photos

(I'm a "he" by the way Stan, lol.)

[Stan]

Hi Stillwaters, I have a stand identical to yours, same color and same shape, mine is mahogany, if yours were to be titan wood it would be expensive, the grain in zitan wood is very grainy and has a dense purple sandy look to it, and it is heavier than most woods, if your vase were mine, I would take it apart, but as Peter, said do it at your own risk, I would hate to see you chip your nice vase. but I personally would rather it be a vase than a lamp, it is awfully big for a lamp, and limited as to where you can put it, but as a vase it can be displayed almost anywhere and you just might have something valuable, did you take a picture of the tail of the dragon, that could be the leading decision.

[Stan]

Zitan, not titan, I have an automatic spell check that changes the words that I'm typing and it automatically changes the spelling.

[Stan]

Sorry I did not see the new pictures you posted with the tail and a good picture of the stand, the stand looks like Rose wood, Zitan wood darkens with age and can almost turn black with a purplish hue to it.

[peterp]

The tail of the dragon really looks as if it was late Qing dynasty.
Whether you remove it is your decision, depends on how a the metal fitting is made. But, be careful with cutters or anything like that. It might be better to saw it through. Just avoid any force application that might damage it.

[Stillwaters]

A couple of things are still bothering me about it though...

Number one, it just seems TOO big

Secondly, the inside of the rim isn't a different glaze like I've seen in other pieces. Most are white or blue or something, not the same color as the outside surface. Is that a problem?

And lastly, shining a flashlight down inside, the yellow glaze goes about halfway down and then drips, the bottom half seems to be unglazed. Is that a problem too?

[peterp]

I don't think that it matters much whether the interior is glazed or not, or with what color.
But, you might be able to see on or more seams inside. Such vases would have been in pieces, on the wheel, which then were fit together. If it were thrown in one go, then this would mean it was made later. Usually, with much older (17th century and earlier) pieces the seams were often also visible on the outside, but in the late Qing period the seam was smoothed down, so it may be less obvious.

[Stan]

Hi Stillwaters, from the looks of the top and top inside, your vase appears to be older, what I use to view the inside is a mechanics telescoping mirror, it is small enough to go down the mouth of the vase, I have used this tool many times with a flashlight, you would be able to view perfectly the inside for seems like Peter mentioned.

[Stillwaters]

Actually I did find a seam, and Peter was right, if I hadn't been looking for it I never would have found it. Its been smoothed down on the outside like Peter said, but I can see that it is more raised down on the inside with a flashlight. You can just barely make it out in the photos.

I was also wondering, it doessn't look like the porcelain I'm familiar with, I posted a photo of a skip in the glaze, does it tell you anything? The rest of the surface seems more grainy than the porcelain I'm used to. Do you think it could be that earthenware shiwan stuff?

(By the way, I wanted to thank you both for sharing your knowledge and time with me, you've been very gracious to me, and also to apologize for being upset on my posts on the contemporary censer. I was a little upset. I'm sorry)

[peterp]

The unglazed area could be the result of some substance adhering to the surface before firing. It could have vaporized during the firing in the kiln, together with the glaze that was on top of that substance.