Celadon Cong Vase

kardinalisimo · Aug 19, 2015, 12:12:12

About 15" tall. Any age or recent? I was not able to find the same, with no tiagrams but just the insiced borders.
Thanks

peterp · Aug 19, 2015, 14:58:00

Age is difficult to tell with monochromes. And, the foot rim is not visible due to the adhering fibres. However, the saw-like appearance of the edge of the glaze, along the foot rim, is normally associated with Qianlong period porcelain. Just giving you a direction for further research.

kardinalisimo · Aug 19, 2015, 19:54:23

Thanks for the reply. I will remove the felt and take better pictures of the foot rim. There are no crackles on the glaze, no rust spots either. I do see some yellow staining on some areas.
I am a bit surprised the base is not marked with even spurious seal. Did they make such vases during Early Qing strickly for the palace or they were produced commercially as well?

kardinalisimo · Aug 20, 2015, 09:20:02

Here are the photos of the foot. I see some age now.

peterp · Aug 20, 2015, 10:17:49

Does the glaze on the bottom have a slightly wavy appearance? If yes, that would probably mean that it cannot be older than Qianlong. The consistency of the foot rim seems to confirm the impression that the saw-shaped glaze edge gives. Probably mid-Qing; I opt for Qianlong because of the typical glaze edge.
Please be aware that I have never seen such a flat Cong vase before. All is based on the bottom/foot rim features alone.

Comment:

This is an extract from the E-book:
<quote>
... it is advisable to start with decorated porcelain. That means with porcelain that either has a blue and white or polychrome decoration. While monochrome items .... may look appealing to you, they are more difficult to authenticate.

Polychrome porcelain gives you more points of reference to check on an item's authenticity than plain or monochrome porcelain would.
<unquote>

In other words, the risk is higher with monochromes. If for example there was an old bottom attached to a new body, and the evaluation is based on the bottom alone...
You will have to find similar items to conform the findings. :-)

kardinalisimo · Aug 20, 2015, 11:32:25

Peter, what do you mean by saw shaped glaze edge. Like it is not straight? That side that I've shown on the pictures has a bit more grits and the glaze edge is rougher but that rest is more even and smoother.
The bottom feels a bit bumpy. The sides are also not perfecly even. Slightly convex.
I also cannot find cong vase with flat sides. At least not green celadon ( here more like pale blue-grayish). Saw few blue and other colors with no decoration but they don't have the incised frames.

kardinalisimo · Aug 20, 2015, 11:44:42

I don't know if that can give a clue about the edge but there is a glaze pooling around the inside of the neck and crack in the glaze.

peterp · Aug 20, 2015, 13:19:48

These occur during firing at may occur in any kiln, especially wood or coal fired ones.

connoisseurbear · Aug 20, 2015, 17:58:16

Hello, first reply in this forum and sorry for me broken English

This one should not be a Celadon vase, if it is celadon glazed, there should be crackles under the glaze. even if it is a Ru glazed vase (which is slightly Blueish), there should also be some small crackles under the glaze. For the glaze and the base I think it is kinda similar to the style of Dehua ???. I was working in a chinese antique gallery and I saw a Qianlong Cong Vase in Dehua glaze with 6characters imperial mark, the color for the glaze very similar to the plastic cover we use in Hong Kong (see attachment).

and ff it is attached with an old base, you can use your finger to rub it, the texture of the old base should be different with the other parts of your vase.

peterp · Aug 20, 2015, 21:22:58

Hi, please first explain what you mean with texture, that is the texture of what? The glaze?

kardinalisimo · Aug 20, 2015, 22:29:16

Correct me if I am wrong but not every celadon glaze should have crackles. Their development depends on number of reasons. Any glaze can get crazing, some with the time, some during or right after the production. I guess in the beginning only the Older Brother pieces were coming crackled.
As to the possibility of attaching an old base, I doubt that. If someone wanted to fake age they would at least go with more common decoration, like molded tiagrams or other relief.
Peter, should I seek for an expert/hands-on opinion or further investigation is not worth it? It is not an Imperial piece so I guess it won't matter much if it is Early, Mid or Late Qing.
By the way, is it true that some of the Yongzheng palace pieces were not marked? If so, why?

kardinalisimo · Aug 21, 2015, 06:30:28

more pics of the glaze edges

peterp · Aug 21, 2015, 08:08:39

Yes, looks indeed as if the bottom was not attached later. Sometimes the glaze is not covering the seam uniformly. They probably use the glaze for fusing both parts together and cover the whole with new glaze. Anyway, it could be as connoisserbear mentioned, that it possibly is not celadon, but all depends on the lighting conditions under which you took the pictures. It is a bit pale, if it were.

Please read the marks section. What is written about items not being marked is valid for all Ming and Qing reigns. Do not get fixed on the marks. Also, the glaze line is a Qianlong specific feature. It could not have been there in the Yongzheng reign, at least not as far as I know. I also never have seen it on a fake until now.

By the way, I thought this was used as a vase, due to what looks like a mended hole inside, bu there is none on the underside. What is that inside? Is something stuck on or the glaze not covering all?

kardinalisimo · Aug 21, 2015, 08:56:59

I am not sure if I get that. Looks like the bottom was or it was not attached later?
It was used as a vase. There was a paper stuck on the bottom that I removed.
The color of the glaze is blueish-greyish but some areas appear dark yellow-brownish but I don't know due to what.

connoisseurbear · Aug 21, 2015, 09:27:57

>>Hi, please first explain what you mean with texture, that is the texture of what? The glaze?

Yes, the glaze, I inspected a Qianlong blue and white zhadou (??) before. And find out that the base is Qianlong, but the body is Republic of China. when we rub these two parts, the sense of touch is different

but i think this vase should not be reattached with an old base, since it is a monochrome vase, it is hard to connect two pieces and the cost involved is very high. And if they want to attach with an old base, they should try to get a base with marks to get a higher price