Jiaqing mark , yellow bowl - please see pictures

[abra]

hello

i would like to share with you a bowl that i have but my knowledge in Chinese antique porcelains is next to zero so i think i should let you guys judge it .

i have no idea about price and source of it .

those are some pictures .

top view

s22.postimg.org/s23577w01/IMG_20150605_063946.jpg
s28.postimg.org/jznrgdb3x/IMG_20150605_063956.jpg
s18.postimg.org/a0urfe121/IMG_20150605_064007.jpg

side view

s30.postimg.org/bajj16k3l/IMG_20150605_064031.jpg

bottom view

s8.postimg.org/hd78lwmol/IMG_20150605_064046.jpg
s8.postimg.org/sfhdhgn2t/IMG_20150605_064242.jpg




i know this Jiaqing mark when i made little search . not sure if i am correct though

thanks and have fun

[Stan]

The mark is a Jiaqing mark 1796-1820 that is about all I can tell you, I am not experienced in these type of wares, Im sure Peter will shed some light on the subject.

[abra]

thank you for confirming mark period

i hope i could get answers from Peter and other experts

[peterp]

First, the pictures are too small.
Just a few comments. A yellow plate with dragons inside would be imperial ware.
I have never seen one where there was any grape decoration on the outside, just the dragons.
The grape decoration does not look as if it belongs to this, and a close up shot of the grapes would help to verify if the black outlines are printed.
I do not think I know grapes from any polychrome wares other than blue and white and doucai decorations.
My view is that this is most likely a fake.

[abra]

Thanks Peter

the pictures are bigger than my laptop screen , they go small automatic by your browser and they come in real size if you click on it . please give it a try

and what is very interesting , i found something while searching that is extremely close to my bowl

please check this link

[link removed by admin] (Please do not post to websites that other than museums or major educational institutions. We want to avoid giving the impression that certain items are endorsed as authentic without proper verfication. Thank you.)


i will try to upload to new website if this does not work

[abra]

test
new host for grapes picture

oi60.tinypic.com/2ijjw6.jpg

[peterp]

Not sure if this is hand painted or transfer printed. Are the lines black or a different dark color?
Can you provide a closeup picture of the foot rim and bottom area also?
It would also be interesting to see the details of the dragons, and the yellow glaze close-up.

BTW, if you wish to compare with other items, try to find samples in major Chinese collections, like those located in museums in Taiwan, China and Britain. Those shown by commercial entities and second tier auction houses are often unreliable.
If you can find such a Jiaqing period plate with grapes in one of those museums, we would be interested to know.

[abra]

yes sure

i have some photos here . i have tried to get the closest shots i could with my camera . also in different sin light angles

pho.to/9SHlZ

i will try to find and i will share it asap in case i found it .

hope the new pictures are helpful

[abra]

sorry i do not know how to edit

lines are black

[peterp]

I cannot tell you for sure if this is what it pretends to be, or if it is a fake.
The dragons, colors and base seem to be all right. I am still not sure with the grapes.
What I would do is try to find a similar item in a major museum collection, as mentioned below.
If you have an opportunity to show it to someone knowledgeable in person, that would be best. E.g., if you can show it to a ceramics specialist at one of the top tier auction houses, these may be more likely to have handled such items before.

Basically, if this is a period item, then it would have to be imperial ware. These colors were specifically used for the palace, in those times. Private kilns were not allowed to do so. However, if it were a copy made towards the end of the 19th or early 20th century, the rules regarding the use of five dragon claws and yellow color were more relaxed. Or it could be a good modern copy.

Normally I would think that the outlines of the grapes (and also the mark) should be aubergine, similar as one of the dragons. This could be very dark, so that it appears to be black; at the same time, with an imperial item we could expect that the filling colors of the grapes and leaves would be kept perfectly within the outlines, no overspill or unfilled spots. That is a matter of imperial quality, and one of the requirements that such wares show.

[abra]

thanks a lot Peter

[abra]

i have found new link that you may be interested in , it is related to that grape paint thing and it is held by a major auction cooperation in London . how should i send the link ?

[peterp]

Don't send it. I have checked on this and it seems the grape decoration really exists. You better have ask for a second opinion as this item is not one of those I know well. Just take the points mentioned into account and try to find someone who has handled such items before. If you do not know who to ask, you could try to get a low-cost online valuation. They may or may not be able to help with authenticity too.